Curse

Schorny · Jul 02, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarX

erm, try harder....

Do, or do not. There is no 'try'.

Sorry to say, but if you have nothing to say, just say nothing. I already got good feedback so there is no need to tell me to 'try harder'. I'm trying hard, we are doing good - I'm just looking for hints how to improve my skills.

I'm not whining that we never win a round or something. We are not really a top guild, but we win more often than we lose.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 02, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

When you are getting owned, yell for help. You aren't doing anything better, so type or talk. If your team is managing without you, just be happy being shut down and run flags or something.

Hey Thom.

Blackout is what makes the W/Me so fun to play... cycle Blackout and interrupts...

Malchiel · Jul 02, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

that's why there's a counter to everything in this game

Monks are uber powerful, and good monks are nearly impossible to kill.

Then comes the mez. Unfortuantely a good mez as a few have pointed out, is extreeeeemeeeeelyyyy rare. Most of them thinks that ilussion is the way to go. Those who do are usually not but n00bs.

Domination is the primary skill a mezmer should be concerned about, it's definitely more than capable of wrecking a monk's day

And I agree war/mez with black out are scary opponents against a caster. As whether they're better than a mez? well I'm not so sure...

But mez sure has a lot more tricks than a war/mez, that can truly make you monks wish you're never born :P

I've always said vs. a team with a good mez, u better have that mez going down first. I have said this since beta. Never mind the monk, so long as you have a good mez on your side, you can shut them down. Mind about their mez, coz if he's good, he'll kill your monk fast.

Ishamael Sedai · Jul 02, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Hi Guys.

In Tombs we frequently run into good Mesmers and have a real tough time. Or at least I as a healer have a tough time...

For example this one team had outstanding mesmers: I got blackout just after the blackout ended I got the next one - not even an orison was possible between these two blackouts! And after the blackout faded out I got a Diversion. Which effectively killed me for 20 seconds. (Just as a remark: we won that match, but it was quite a very tough one)

Is there anything I as a monk can do to avoid or lessen the trouble I get into? I know, my team tries there best to kill the mesmers, but we don't do spike damage, so it is hard for us to get an instant kill. Our strategy is more on a long fight with quite good DPS, so their monks run out of energy. The longer the battle lasts the better are our chances to win.

So anything to do against good mesmers? I know I can't avoid them, but maybe a few ideas on how to lessen the devastating effect on me?

I ran into a group one time that had a similar blackout strategy. The monk that was being targeted was continually blackedout by a mesmer.

Ollj · Jul 03, 2005, 05:16 AM // 05:16

half the ranger spells are good against mesmers.

Morganas · Jul 03, 2005, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Yeah, best counter to a shutdown mesmer is a shutdown ranger. Not a whole lot a domination mesmer can do to defend against massive health degen, dmg, and interrupts being hurled at them.

Schorny · Jul 04, 2005, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

Yeah, best counter to a shutdown mesmer is a shutdown ranger.

We do have quite a few Rangers in our Guild but normally bring 1 or 2 to Tombs or guild fights, not more.

As I don't play a Ranger but I have looked at the skills, can you explain how a Ranger can shut down a Mesmer better than for example an other Mesmer?

Mesmers cast very fast, so interruption is nearly impossible for rangers. Of course, they can drain the mesmer's energy and stack health degen, but the health degen should be stacked on the whole enemy team...

I really would like to know. Thanks.

Tellani Artini · Jul 04, 2005, 11:10 AM // 11:10

I don't think illusion is useless as a mesmer's primary attribute. It's just not as good as domination at shutting down casters. It also seems to be much more effective in smaller games (4v4) where you can cripple the enemy offense in a matter of seconds. Anguish the warriors, shackle the rangers (inspiration, I know), conundrum the elementalists/mesmers/necros. Throw phantasm around, with mantra of persistence, for ~22 seconds of degen and cover hexing. Mantra of persistence makes all the spells almost twice as potent, and I can't imagine playing an illusionist without it. Combine a 20 second AC with an interrupt ranger/warrior and the monk is just as dead.

The best defense against an anti-monk mesmer is to have a mesmer on your team that kills their monks faster ;d

Edge Martinez · Jul 04, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

How can a monk beat a Mesmer? Target Mesmers first. The thing I've noticed about Tombs is that noob rushing the monks leaves almost everyone else on your team vulnerable, so if they ever rush you, have your group go after their mesmer first.

One of the best PUG's I was in that made it to the HoH the hard way did not have a healer monk. We had an Elementalist/Monk who soloed the healing, a necro, some damage dealing Ele's and warriors and 2 Protection Monks who buffed each other to hell and ran right into the enemy group drawing fire. Every now and then they'd cast an Osiron to make it look like they were healing people. It was like moths to the flame. The rest of us could do whatever we wanted. The bane of this plan? Mesmers who could strip enchantments. So they died first. I'm sure the opposing Monks thought it was Christmas as we just let them heal to their hearts content, only interrupting rez attempts.

So yeah. A dead Mesmer casts no spells.

Gerbill · Jul 04, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Spellbreaker is annoying as hell...

Schorny · Jul 05, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerbill

Spellbreaker is annoying as hell...

Yesterday we fought a Guild in Tombs that used Spell Breaker quite extensivly. We were trying out an Air Spike build and it was so not funny

Everytime we called a target the Spell Breaker stopped us... We were dead within 50 seconds. Never thought about that tactic

Bazooka · Jul 05, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

As mentioned, the simple answer is kill the mesmer. This will take coordination with your teammates. As soon as you see the mesmer is casting shutdown start running away from the other team(the mesmer's healers). Once you have him out of position, get your team to alphastrike him.
This tactic is not only good against mesmers, its great for any lonewolf/stragglers caught away from their support

If you're facing a good mesmer who you cant seem to lure out of position then you will have to do the good ol diversion tactic. This is done by appearing to do a spike on the usual targeted monk but actually saving up damage(in the form of a charging warrior/elementalists) for the mesmer. Hopefully the opposing healers are selfish/terrified and wont notice that you've switched targets.

Epinephrine · Jul 05, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

So yeah. A dead Mesmer casts no spells.

Shhhhh....

Some of us like our mesmers. Yeah, the worst thing about playing a mesmer is that you need to be free to concentrate on shutting folks down, and you can't do it while being hacked to pieces by a rabid warrior. Dealing with mulitple casters takes timing and concentration, I can't be running for my life. Unfortunately a smart team will target the mesmers to elimnate their disruptive effect on the group.

Oh, and what does a monk do vs a mesmer? Flee. Get out of range and let your team deal with him - a good mesmer is an excellent anti-monk player, and there is little a monk can do when kept unable to cast. Honestly, there is nothing as fun as shutting down a catser with a mesmer. I love the active interrupts, the little "ping" sound as you stomp another spell into the ground. It's not bragging really, anymore than saying "Wow, my scissors really demolish paper!". It's the way they are designed - Mesmers are good anti-casters for the most part. It takes very little skill for a mesmer to shut down a single caster.

Edge Martinez · Jul 05, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

It takes very little skill for a mesmer to shut down a single caster.

Exactly. Echo, Thievery, Thievery, Backfire, Blackout. How's that monk going to heal? He lost two spells and then his skills got locked. When the lock is over, he'll be desperate to cast a healing spell, but backfire is still on, so he takes almost 200 damage. Nasty. So yeah... why monks are always the first target, I don't know.

Tellani Artini · Jul 05, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

The sign of a good mesmer is being able to shut down two monks at the same time.

rii · Jul 05, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

The sign of a good mesmer is shutting down all the casters on the opposite team, with 2 completly/nearly gone.

bobrath · Jul 05, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

We do have quite a few Rangers in our Guild but normally bring 1 or 2 to Tombs or guild fights, not more.

As I don't play a Ranger but I have looked at the skills, can you explain how a Ranger can shut down a Mesmer better than for example an other Mesmer?

Mesmers cast very fast, so interruption is nearly impossible for rangers. Of course, they can drain the mesmer's energy and stack health degen, but the health degen should be stacked on the whole enemy team...

I really would like to know. Thanks.

Mesmers (from my experience) like to be left alone. A charging warrior is their nightmare, the damage is right there and a W has enough skills to make mesmers go down faster. A ranger can do the same from a much greater distance (ie inflict damage and conditions). Don't think of your rangers as killers but more as a "better" distraction.

Since so much of a PvP encounter is won by taking the other team out of their groove, you need to look at what your team can do to upset the other's plans. They've done it to you by blacking out your monk with a mesmer. What can a ranger do? He has energy sapping(Debilitating Shot), skill lock down and interuption (lots here), and can set up an impressive moat with rituals (Natures Renewal Quickening Zephyr) and traps(Barbed, Spike, and Dust). Sure his arrows have flight time, but any ranger worth his salt accounts for this and picks up on patterns. As I saw in another post long ago, if you see a Glyph of Lesser Energy... you probably want to get that distracting shot ready.

Oh and as they continue to improve pets, pets are the ideal Mesmer annoyance. All the upclose fun of a warrior (Bestial Pounce, Disrupting Lunge, and Maiming Strike), but with better sound effects.

Yeah, there are a lot of skill listed there, but the short and sweet is that Rangers are pretty well suited to counteract Mesmer hexes and return more hurt back. Fun would be using a Necro to punish the Mesmer instead.....

pagansaint · Jul 05, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Sick a R/W on the mesmers

Apply poison/tiger's fury/knockdowns (my favorite tactic as hammer R/W is running right PAST the mesmer and laying a barbed trap, crippling and bleeding him then turning around and knocking him down applying the poison)

Aplly Poison/Sever artery/hamstring/savage slash and distracting blow (or alternately use the same tactic as with a hammer and you free up a slot for a high damage ability)

Most cases I take my R/W, tel the group before we even leave that I'm NOT going to be on the called target, I'm going for mesmers then whatever monks are left. In almost all cases the monks all concetrate on keeping the monk thats under attack alive and I can go gank to hell the mesmers and sometimes the elementalists, which ranger armor + dryders defense ROYALLY screws when they think they can just spike you to hell when you run up to them

Jack expertise/attack skill/wilderness up and either tactics(sword) or beast(hammer) to really put the hurt on them.

Mister Pie · Jul 06, 2005, 09:24 AM // 09:24

I always target mesmers first in PvP. They are even more annoying than the monks.

Schorny · Jul 06, 2005, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

Most cases I take my R/W, tel the group before we even leave that I'm NOT going to be on the called target, I'm going for mesmers then whatever monks are left. In almost all cases the monks all concetrate on keeping the monk thats under attack alive and I can go gank to hell the mesmers and sometimes the elementalists, which ranger armor + dryders defense ROYALLY screws when they think they can just spike you to hell when you run up to them

We'll try this. Thanks!